…..Says Nigeria Needs Political Structure To Improve Governance
Dr. Mike Okonkwo is the Presiding Bishop of The Redeemed Evangelical Mission (TREM), also known as Power in the Word, with over 200 branches in Nigeria and around the world.
He is an Apostle to this generation, having impacted millions globally through his ministry. A father figure to many and a pastor to pastors. Dr. Okonkwo is a dynamic conference speaker, crusade evangelist, national spokesman for Nigeria, and advocate of balanced Christianity.
In this interview with Brand Visibility, he spoke extensively on national issues, Christianity and his growing up as he turns 80.
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Bishop Mike Okonkwo at 80, September 2025. What does that mean to you Sir?
Well, you know the only giver of life is God and life is a mystery; there are those who have gone, some die in the womb, some come out as still birth; some are born, but they don’t come of age to attain whatever dreams they have and they die. For God to be able to keep me alive to this age, it’s a blessing, that’s all I can tell you and I consider myself blessed. God has allowed me in his infinite mercies for me to come to this age and not just come to this age, but come to this age not falling apart; healthy and strong and still being able to be active. There is no way I can quantify my gratitude to God and I do it every day. I say it always, one of my regular sayings is that If you wake up in the morning, you are able to go to the bathroom yourself, you are able to dress yourself, you are able to go and urinate, it’s something that you should say Lord I thank you, because many times, we as human beings want to take such things for granted because we think it’s normal. When I sleep I wake up, there are those who have gone to sleep and they never wake up; so I really have nothing to say than to say Thank you to the Almighty God.
What are you looking forward to at 80?
At 80, what I’m looking forward to is continuity; because it’s not enough to live life for yourself, continuity especially in my situation, having being used by God to establish a ministry; it must not die in my hands, there must be continuity, because the whole essence is to impact other people’s life. I’m looking forward that what God has used me to do will continue even if I’m not here.
Looking back over the years, will you say that God has been faithful to you?
I just said that in my first response, I explained that; of course, to be alive is something to be grateful to God for, that there are some people who are born as still birth, some who die in the womb, some who died in their teenage years. So 80 years, why won’t I be grateful, not just being 80, but being able to be strong, to still travel; I have my mental alertness, strength spiritually, filled with vitality and all that; that’s enough to be grateful to God for on a daily basis. God has been awesome.
As you were growing up, what were your thoughts about life?
When you say someone is 40, as a boy, I used to think the person is already old and then when you go into 60, 70. I never knew a time will come and I will get to that age. For me, 50 years is still very far, but I’ve come to learn. Every day in life should be seen as an opportunity to do something because life is very brief. I mean, I look back, 80 years, I can still remember some of the things I was doing as a teenager, as a small boy going to Primary school and all those things. So for me, I wasn’t really looking at that direction, I was thinking, just live your life and move on.
So, how was your growing up like as a child?
My Parents were disciplinarians, my Father was a Civil Servant and my Mother was a trader and I was born in Enugu and by the time I turned 4 or 5, my father who was working in the Ministry of Telecommunication, then it was called P & T, Ministry of Post and Telegraph before it became telecommunications, was transferred to Lagos, so I lived most of my life in Lagos. My father was very fluent in Yoruba and my siblings. After a while, maybe standard 4 or so, my father sent me to go and stay with my Uncle who was a lecturer in Offa grammar school. So I was there attending Primary school, St. Marks Primary School Offa. It was from Offa I did entrance examination into Mayflower Grammar school Ikenne, under Tai-Solarin. The school was still in it embryonic state then, it had not even taken their first school Certificate at that time. I remember also, growing up in Lagos, I used to sell Bread for my mother. My mother used to sell Ankara in Oyingbo market. She buys them from Onitsha and then sell. She had a store in Oyingbo market. And we also sell bread, I sell on the streets of Lagos. My father made sure that we were very disciplined and taught us to know that hard work pays. And this were some of the values he inculcated in us to make us know that nothing comes cheap.
Growing up, I’ve watched my Father because he later became a Senior Civil Servant, he was in a very good position to employ people and all, which he did quite a lot, a lot of people were employed under him, but you know people will want to come and show gratitude. I remember there was a time somebody came to our house and came with Turkey to show gratitude and we collected it as young people and my father came back and said we must find the person because you don’t collect gratitude because you did something for somebody. He saw us through all these things and taught us never to take someone’s things. It’s not like what is happening today, young people grow up and they’re bringing all kinds of things home and nobody is asking questions, not in our house. So I lived under a very strict disciplinary man and of course, Mayflower helped to shape my life because Tai-Solarin was a disciplinarian also. Even though he wasn’t a Christian, but he was very upright and that also assisted in moulding my character.
Does that process of discipline helped in your relationship with God at a very early age?
Of course, I was going to Church, but I won’t say I have a personal relationship with God. I was born into a Christian family, Anglican Communion and I saw my parents going to church and they insisted that we must go to church, not just go to church, but be involved. I remember that I was in the Choir in the church we were attending then, St. Judes at Ebute-Meta in Oyingbo, myself and my siblings. Yes, I was tilted towards God and I guess that also may have helped me to finally have a personal encounter with God. I will say that it also helped me in a way.
How was your encounter with God?
My encounter with God was very strange, I must tell you, because when the war ended in Enugu then, when the war ended generally, there was a revival in the entire East and everyone was seeking God. Some young people were getting through Scripture Union and all the University programmes, getting saved and all those stuff, there was a friend of ours that I knew, they were attending Scripture Union and I began to watch their life and I see that this people’s life is totally different from mine and I wanted what they had and so I remember entering a room, I wanted to sleep, I knelt down, we came to a particular place in Lagos for a programme and the other two people when they wanted to retire decided to go and pray on their own and they didn’t invite me to come because to them I was not part of them and I felt isolated. What I now did was I said to God, if there was anything he was going to do in my life that I surrender to him and that changed everything. Then, we were on visit, we were visiting from Enugu and when I went back to Enugu, I went into church, that’s where I surrendered completely and that’s when I really began to be exposed to God and understand what it is to have a relationship with God.
So, how did the vision of TREM came about?
You know that I was attending a Church in Enugu that is where I will say that I got into a relationship with God, it is called United Church of Christ, in Enugu, it was one of the popular churches then when the war ended. They are still there now. More of young people were coming then to be part of the work and they were opening churches all over. But somewhere along the line, we noticed that there was still something more than what we were doing and through interaction and reading from other churches that were coming up, like Church of God mission, the one under Archbishop Idahosa, by then he wasn’t even a Bishop, but we watch then, on Television and we began to feel somehow that something is missing and then the Lord began to minister to me that I wasn’t going to stay long in that church. I thought that I had come to my bus stop as UCC is concerned, and God began to minister to me and also subsequent events that happened in the church, you know a lot of crisis took place that made some of us young people to exit. Some of us are in the US now, some that we schooled together and even at that, I didn’t know what I was going to do because I wasn’t in any way planning to start church, where am I going to start from? I have not even received formal training, because in those days, not now that we have Bible schools, there were no Bible schools then, there were no examples you can copy apart from Foursquare and Assemblies of God, those are examples of what we might call living churches. There were no Bible schools for training, so where am I going to start; I am not even good in the scriptures. I was confused to be honest. So I was just waiting, I didn’t know what I’ll do.
The Lord showed me in a vision that the founder of that church was going to call for me to return but I should not. Because one is that anything I’m involved with, I put my life in it. I really put my life in the place and I did the best I could, so he said to me, they’re going to send for me and two days after, he sent people to me and I was specifically told I should not go back. When they came, I told them I’m not coming back, what I was going to do, I didn’t know. But when they left, what did I do? By then, Deeper Life has started doing their Monday Bible study in the campus. Brother Kumuyi was teaching in the University as a lecturer; they have not started church, it was just fellowship. So I went to meet him and shared my experience, and he said I should keep on praying that there will be clarity. So I got counsel from him, then also, I met one of the founders of Foursquare Gospel Church; he is late now, Dr. Badejo; he also counseled me, advised me and said no don’t go back, so I was waiting, until God now said “You are going to start a ministry and I will guide you step by step”. So by 1979 to 1980, we began to hold few meetings with people who were with me and by the end of 1980, we came up through prayers with the name of the church. By 1981, we took off. But within that same period, I was reading different newspapers, Christian magazines and I saw in the newspaper that there is a scholarship for Africans to come to the US for ministry training, so I just applied, I wasn’t hopeful or anything, but lo behold, I was offered the scholarship and all I needed to do was to find my flight ticket and be there. Accommodation fully paid, every other things I needed fully paid. To God be the glory that was settled. So, 1981, TREM was established officially next day or two days after I travelled to the US. I was exposed to a lot of other mega ministries, exposed to them because they were part of the faculty, lecturing. What I did to further equip myself was to get all their materials, the books they have written, the tapes they did, and apart from that I also went to the Rhema Bible College which is reigning in Oklahoma. In fact, anyone who was involved in charismatic ministry who has not attended the College and gotten involved with Rhema has not started. That is Kenneth E. Hagin of the blessed memory. I got all their materials, everything they teach, brought them back to Nigeria and I also got registered in Baptist Theological Seminary so as to be balanced. So those things helped to train me, so by the time I came back, in fact I was opportune to remain in America like my colleagues who were with me in the former church; some of them are still there, one of them is in Canada, some of them are in the USA. I had opportunity to remain there, not to return and it was something attractive. Those days, people will be like you have opportunity to stay overseas, what are you coming back to look for in Nigeria? But once there’s is a calling on your life, you’re not thinking of your comfort, you are thinking of the call. That was what motivated me to return, even when I know that there was really nothing on ground, no attraction, nothing that anyone will desire other than vision and now see what God has done.
TREM is anchored on Power In the word, what God cannot do doesn’t exist, how did you come about Power in the word?
With my trainings, I found out that everything hinged on the word of God and there is Power in the Word and so whatever the word cannot give you, you don’t need it, it doesn’t even exist. So the focus is to put people to depend on God’s word. If you notice the controversy going on social media on church or no church and what to do or what not to do. This is because people are adding to God’s word. If you decide to build on God’s word, you won’t get involved in all that nonsense because there’s no ambiguity in the word of God, it’s clear, unless you want drama. People like it when there’s drama, God is not dramatic, He is not mischievous as people think. In fact, He is the one who came to us to show us who He is. So He is not hiding himself from us.
How do you think your life has impacted others and what testimonies stand out to you particularly?
Well, there are many testimonies one could speak about, but to be honest with you, my greatest testimony is the fact that I have lived my life as a life of character and integrity, I have zero tolerance for people who have no values and character; stand for anything and fall for anything. You know, just do anything to make it happen in life. Why would I say I am serving God if God is not big enough to provide for me, take care of me, then why am I serving him? I should better forget him and do whatever I want to do. I was working in the bank, I had a future in African Continental Bank when the war ended, but when I received the call, it’s like going from known to unknown; I didn’t even know where I was going and I was earning good money. It’s not now that everybody wants to go into Ministry because you see they drive Jeep, they wear Agbada, so you think that’s an easy way to get established. No, I wasn’t looking for remuneration, in fact one of the things I said to myself was that if money was going to be the motivating factor to be in Ministry, I don’t need it. So whatever you are seeing now in my life if there’s anything, I’ll just say it’s God’s grace, not because I manipulated or cheated or put my membership under pressure of you must do it. No, if God doesn’t do it, forget it that means that it’s not supposed to be done. That life alone, that I can walk the streets and they won’t point at me and say that this one is among them that package miracle, am I God that will do miracles? If he doesn’t do it, let it remain undone. I’m relaxed, I’m not under pressure to make people call me something. Don’t call me anything, I’m not God. That’s just it.
You have been in full time ministry for over 50 years without any scandal, major or minor. It doesn’t happen every day. To what will you attribute your scandal free ministry to?
One, grace of God. I must tell you it’s not because I’m stronger than any person; two, quality decision to live by certain values. If I begin to pursue money, I’m going to also stain myself. If I pursue money, there’s no way I can be free and the scripture is very clear, it says the love of money is the root of all evil. If you see people doing certain things, trace it, money is involved. So I will say, God’s grace has kept me, and the values I’ve built for myself. There is boundaries; I am not going to play God because I am not God. I won’t play him to impress people in ministry. For your information, in those days if you have not invite a white man to your church, you are not doing anything, you have not started. I was the first who decided to do a major programme and didn’t invite any white person. I looked for preachers within the country and brought them and we had a good meeting. After that, others began to follow to do that. So when you begin to impress people to let them know what you are doing, you will run into problem.
Sir, from your experience, has anything changed about the ministry compared to the time you started?
Of course, a lot of things have changed. I was a product of my background, my background was a very strict religious one because I won’t call that Christianity but religion. Those days, when you’re coming to my church, women sit differently from men, even if she’s your wife, both of you won’t sit together in church until the service is over. Women do not leave their hair open, in fact you must cover it fully and no earrings, also no makeup. I was so strict that I come to church with scissors. It was that bad and then one day I was leaving the church and I looked at the bus stop and I saw the same people who came to church, they had removed their head ties and they have put on their makeup. And I was frustrated, I was wondering what was wrong and the Lord said to me that you cannot legislate righteousness, that righteousness is a gift that he gives to us at the time of new birth, even holiness, we’re made holy by him and by accepting it, you will live holy. Everything that God does is a gift, it’s not because you’re strong. If you hear people say “I did this and then God did this for me” that person, watch him, he’s a religious person, he’s not somebody preaching the gospel. So I went back to the scriptures to find out and I found out that some of the things we were doing were as a result of the culture of some of the people in those days. It doesn’t have anything to do with God. In Asia and different countries, they wear trouser, is it that those people are not going to go to heaven? So all those things, I had to go back and study the scriptures and then began to bring scriptures into proof. I began to teach line upon line. Remember I was the same person who was strict on people, I had to go back and teach in the church and made them know, because I have the desire to make sure that everyone that God draws to me meets the Lord on the last day and therefore, if there is anything I have taught that is contrary to scriptures, I won’t be embarrassed to come back to revisit it. And that’s what we’ve been doing overtime and we have had a lot of transitions as far as our worship experience is concerned.
So what that does to you, it helps you to be at the cutting edge, you’re not obsolete in doing things. This is how it must be whether we like it or not. Do I quarrel with people who want to remain where they are? No. The only area, three basic principles that guide me, we have what is called unity in fundamentals of faith. Jesus Christ is Lord, he died for our sins, he was buried and he rose again, triumphant over death. If you don’t subscribe to that truth, you are not a Christian, I don’t care how much you go to church. So, fundamentals of Faith, there is heaven, there is hell and sin. Man was born in sin. So if we are born in sin, we need the life of God back in us to be reconciled back to God and that can only be done by the blood of Jesus. And so, that’s unity. Liberty in non-essentials; what are those non-essentials? If you want to wear trouser, I don’t have a problem with you, if you want to makeup, I don’t have problem with you. I can still fellowship with you as long as you have Christ in you and then clarity in all things. What is Clarity in all things? In other words, even though I know, I have a revelation concerning what I’m doing and I find out that you don’t understand it yet, I can choose to deprive myself, in other words, if I am coming to your church, I can decide that I won’t wear trouser, I will wear gown so as not to offend you, not because I don’t know what’s right. So that’s what has guided me, that has makes me to be able to fellowship with any person. I can fellowship with anybody, the Catholic, the Anglican, the Presbyterian, the Aladura, in fact I’ve preached for Aladura before, about one or two times.
Let us veer off religion now, let us go to education. I know the ministry and you in person has impacted many lives through some of your programmes; the lecture, and the annual essay competition. How did you come about instituting all those developmental programmes?
No one has seen God at any time, people can see God through people and the scripture says the church is the light of the world, not the light of the church; light of the world and salt of the Earth. Our light should be seen outside. It says, let our light so shine that men may glorify your father which is in heaven; so one of the things I have been teaching since inception and what we do during church services is just to strengthen people so that they can do church outside. Real ministry is outside. How do we touch those who will never enter a church building? So that’s the motivation in saying look, we may not do everything, but let’s do something. Young people coming up, we’ll be able to cultivate them to write essays and we give those that we can give scholarships. Those who are indigents but are brilliant, we give them scholarship, no matter their religion, the issue is humanity. God loves the entire humanity. We have had over 20 years of Mike Okonkwo National Essay Competition. It’s been ongoing and we try to assist the school, give them computers, and also encourage the young people. In fact, it helps them in honesty and integrity, we tell them, don’t let anyone write for you, don’t go and copy from somewhere. Then we get a University Professor to help mark those things so there’s no question of bias. So those are the motivating factors, let’s give back to society and not just confine everything within ourselves, so they can feel God through us.
Talking about education, some churches established universities; are you looking towards that direction?
Talking about establishing a university, you know, ministry is ongoing, you may have dreams and visions, but many times, some of this dreams and visions will outlive you. One of the things that I’ve said many times is never to put myself under any pressure. I’m not in competition with any person. I’m not doing something because someone is doing it, those are some of the things that will lead you into doing the wrong thing. To go into competition because your friend started a university and is doing well therefore I must start. Did God tell you? So this is me! University is a good thing, ministries own universities, but if you notice the ministry of Elijah, it continued. There are certain things God told Elijah to do which was completed by Elisha.
You see, even though I believe that it’s a good idea and other things, I’m not putting myself under pressure to do it. This coming generation, let them do it. I can’t complete everything, because if I complete everything, what’s the next thing to do? Let those ones do it. So I won’t put myself under pressure to do anything. When you go and begin to do things that God didn’t tell you, then you’ll generate the money by force. I’m not putting myself under that pressure for now.
At 80, what are your concerns for the country and are we on the right path?
Talking about the political situation in the country, to be honest with you, I’m thoroughly disappointed, I feel embarrassed and I’ve said it in many places that how can we have this number of churches in the country, number of gatherings, big gatherings; I don’t think there’s any place in the world that we have such gatherings like we have in this country; prayer times and all the stuff. Is there any place you will find that God has raised dynamic strong leadership in church like in this country? And yet our nation is the way it is. It embarrasses me, as a leader in the body of Christ, the country is not where it should be. I mean, our political leaders have learnt nothing. They used to say, the military spoilt everything; now that we are in charge, what have we done. A politician comes into office today, what he is thinking about is the next election, so what does he do? He doesn’t care about performance. Not knowing that when you perform, the masses will beg you to come back again. When you give them the basic things they need, the dividends of democracy. So frankly speaking, we haven’t done anything. I don’t believe there’s any difficulty in doing what we should do. I believe there’s no will power to do it because all it takes is re-structure the country; put the country in such a way that it is on a level playing ground for anyone from any part of the country from any tribe to aspire to contest for elections without any fear of anything. Somebody recently was having an interview and telling us how much it’ll cost to run for different offices. Talking about in billions. When I saw it, I said, you people, with this type of thing you want a new Nigeria, it will never happen because if it’ll cost me billions to run for an office, won’t I look for the money when I get there? I must look for my money. So why won’t we put things in place that it won’t cost such money for somebody to run for office so that we get credible people into the office. Is it that there are no credible people who are brilliant?
Look at Burkina Faso of yesterday; Burkina Faso which is like backyard for us in Nigeria. What are we doing? We are not there. It’ll take a long time. We are playing politics with people’s lives. That’s what it is. Recently there are the issue of people that were burnt alive, children burnt alive. In developed countries, this will occupy a front burner in their parliament, every other thing will become secondary. Until there is solution. That is what happens in developed countries. Any little thing that affects the masses, their National Assembly or their Congress will shut down until they find solution. But we don’t care. No one cares about any person. Today, somebody enters, becomes councilor and is building a mansion. Where did you get the money from? Our politics requires a drastic surgery. It’s not about individual or party anymore. And I don’t know when but I just pray God will give us a leader that will have the will power to perform this surgery for us. That’s where we are.
I remember when you were 70, we interviewed and you told us age is just a number. At 80, is age still just a number? What you were doing 10-20 years ago, can you still do them?
Listen, if anyone says that there’s a time age will not come; it’s a natural phenomenon, otherwise, we are going to live on this Earth forever. There are things you want to do, go for it, but your strength can’t carry you like it used to. You want to stand, you cannot stand, you want to do this you can’t. You see some of our people, preachers like me have lied, they have told a lot of lies. As if they’re invisible. They don’t take drugs and yet they’ll go for medical checkups. They have private medical checkups and all those things. And then you’re believing that. Some people just die for nothing because of what they heard on the pulpit; no it’s not true.
When we were growing up, we had scripture union, there was fire in Christianity; today, we tend to lower the bar for some people, let them just come in here. Why sir?
Let me tell you Christianity is not about what you wear; unfortunately some people will argue it. But that doesn’t give license for inappropriate dressing, there is proper dressing, there is inappropriate dressing. For instance, I won’t want to leave my house naked all in the name of dressing, I will consider it inappropriate. But to say, until I cover my head, that’s when God will answer me. There is no standard lowered. Some may have lowered standards but I think it’s strictly because we have not concentrated on the hearts of the people. We are looking at them outwardly. It’s a changed heart that changes behavior. It is what is in your heart that you’re going to manifest.
About politics, some of the people in government, they belong to one church or the other and yet they are not doing the right thing. What is the church doing about it?
I am in agreement with you that the church has failed in two ways; the church failed in the sense that we were busy concentrating on outward appearance and not inwards. God looks at the heart. That’s why many of them will not change. I said it somewhere not very long; who are those stealing money in the government? James, John, Martha, Mary, they go to our churches; that’s the truth. I agree with you. So that puts a lot of responsibilities on the church to re-examine what we are preaching? Truth be told, many churches are not preaching the gospel. They’re preaching their opinion. What is the gospel? Death, burial and resurrection of Christ. That all of us are sinners, headed for hell. And that the wages of sin is eternal death and that if you fail to receive Christ in your life, you will end up in hell, but the good news is that Christ has already paid even before you were born; will you accept his offer? So that is why God won’t be blamed for anyone who goes to hell. He is not telling you to pay any price for your sins; he says I have paid, do you receive it? So, many people are preaching no earrings. Listen, when you go to church, instead of preaching Christ, you’re preaching stop wearing earrings, you are a sinner, you fornicated yesterday, you drank alcohol, let me ask you, what will that do to the person? What change will that bring? You think if I come to your church and you’re telling me I am fornicating, I’m drinking alcohol, you think that will change me? It won’t change me because I already know, you’re not telling me any new thing; it is when you give me the solution, that it is the gospel.
Unfortunately, it is ignorance, lack of training, lack of understanding of the Bible. Most of our churches preach sin rather than righteousness. We are preaching sin to the people, we’re preaching their crimes to them, we are preaching their evil to them. The scripture says, as a man thinketh in his heart, so is he. So you’re telling me what I know, you’re further empowering me, that’s all, it doesn’t change me. I may cry, I may roll on the floor, but I will still go back to do what I’m doing. The scripture says, Paul writes in the book of Romans 1:16-17, I am not ashamed of the gospel. Paul was a religious man. The number one religious man. He says, but I came into encounter with Christ. I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ for it is the power of God unto Salvation. That is the power that saves, Christ. So many of us are not preaching Christ, we’re preaching all manner of things. Come and receive miracle, come and receive healing. After that, what happens? How has it affect our lifestyle?
The future of Nigeria depends on the youth, what is your message to the youths of Nigeria because some of them are keen on towing the path of corruption because of what they are seeing among the leaders?
That is the natural way to think. At the end of the day, leaders have failed to understand that they’re sowing seed that will germinate in the future. If we think legacy, there are things we won’t do as leaders. Most of our leaders have destroyed young people for nothing. I wouldn’t blame them. What do you want them to do? They struggle to go to school, come out of school, nothing! And you will still want them to be morally upright. The only way that can happen is God. Because man have failed them and that is why the church has a lot of responsibilities to ensure that whatever you can do for young people, do it for them, so they can be able to stand wherever they find themselves in any part of the world. Otherwise, if they are to follow the example they are seeing outside, there will be no future. So church has plenty to do.
There is so much noise and outcry concerning 2027 to the detriment of Nigerians. What is your advice to the political parties, the actors coming from Mr. President, down to the Governors and then the National Assembly and others?
The way I see it is that we are having misplaced priorities. And I’m not just saying it for this government but generally in our political structure. Misplaced priorities in that once we come to office we are thinking of the next election rather than governance. Take Alex Otti for instance, it’ll be difficult to unseat him. Why? Because the man came on board and faced main problems of the people. Honestly, if you go to Aba to talk badly about Alex Otti, they’ll stone you. Because there’s evidence and that is all that is needed. Our political leaders don’t need any of this drama, manipulation and stressing people about re-election. Go and perform and voting for you will be easy. Nigerians are easy to please. They’re not looking for you to give them moon, just give them level playing ground. We are resilient people, we will work hard. Give me level playing ground and I will hustle for myself. That’s all they’re asking for. Mr. President presently who has gone through a lot of struggles. Who said he is a progressive and knew the challenges he went through before eventually he was elected as president, with all the mud thrown at him, with all the name calling, and yet he is our President whether you like it or not. The day I’ll see him, I’ll ask him, what is stopping you from building a legacy that will put an end to the pain and shenanigans going on in politics. Reform the country, put it in a place where anyone in any part of this country can aspire to any office. Put the country in a place where no region will hold anyone to ransom.
Why should a particular person or region be the final say of who becomes President? For me I don’t agree with that. Structure is there, let the structure speak for itself. Nigeria will remember him for life. All those bad history they’re saying, they will forget it. No one will remember it. We will remember him as a man that was bold to tear down all those things that were retrogressive to the progress of this country.
At 80, you’ve been watching our Politics, you’ve experienced a lot in the political scene. So with the game of defection now, do you think we are moving towards one party state?
Nigeria is too multifaceted for a one party state. Anyone who attempts it, there will be an explosion in that party. Forget about all that is going on, it can’t be. It can’t work. More so when people have become enlightened. So that can’t happen. Even the people in that party are already having their own agenda. Forget that, so I’m not even thinking in that direction.
Over 50 years, you have been on the pulpit preaching the gospel, how have you been able to manage the family and God’s work?
I have been able to manage family and ministry. Initially, when the ministry started, I won’t tell you it was easy to manage family, that’s where agreement between you and your wife comes in. There are things she’ll have to take on, but it’s not going to be a permanent thing. For instance, I had to do a lot of travelling when the ministry was growing up which she won’t even go with me. So you need to put that in place and in your mindset, but every given opportunity, you must get back to your family. It is family first before the pulpit. That’s one of the things people don’t understand. So if your family isn’t in order, you’re going to run into problems. I say to young Pastors in Bible School that one of the things you must guard jealously about your life is your marital life. Don’t just jump into marriage because of what you see. You must be prayerfully and ask God for guide and give you somebody who will understand your vision. Otherwise, you are not going to make it. If you marry wrongly, half of your ministry is gone. You will never maximize the call of God in your life. Recently, I was just telling them that I can’t thank God enough for my wife, the type of woman God has given me, her patience, her courage, her resilience, her dynamism, her understanding, what she has done in my life because I don’t think I will have been able to survive with ministry. So she’s being of tremendous help. So every opportunity, you must always go back. Don’t take your family for granted. You see, when your wife begins to agitate because of neglect and all that thing, don’t think that she’s committing sin. You have neglected your responsibility at home, that’s why it happens, so every opportunity, we sit as family and just enjoy ourselves, we just enjoy what family people do. Argue, quarrel, fight amongst ourselves and again continue with life. So that helps you. You see, I don’t live in deceptions, I have heard some people say, no, I have never quarreled with my wife; not one day of quarrel. You see, the lies that people tell on the pulpit is a lot. I’ll shamefully admit. We are human beings, so there will be times of disagreement, quarrel. But the beautiful thing about Christianity is that there’s always a bounce back, get up and keep going. We are an ongoing work in process. It’s an ongoing work that he is doing in us. By the time we see him face to face, the work will be complete.
BV.
